14c28n steel vs d2 14c28n steel vs d2

Would be great if some manufactures changed their steels based on this information. So we get back to my original question: if a D2 planer blade at 58 Rc and the associated level of toughness will perform acceptably with a 30 sharpening angle, is there some way to extrapolate at what sharpening angle another steel with higher toughness might perform equally well? Its very tough and exceptionally corrosion-resistant. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. Here, youll learn the different factors that go into each steel, ratings for a wide variety of steel alloys, and youll get some recommendations for types of knives different types of steel work well for. Is there a reason SG2/R2 are not included in the lineup, despite being one of the most popular ones? This is an old high-carbon (non-stainless) steel. If you want for best steel 14c28n and others steel then you can ready 14c28n vs 420hc review. LC200N has similar properties to those two but with saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. Read more. I guess the question is whether toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases. 420 Simple, non-stainless steels of medium carbon content like 5160 also boast high toughness. It wont hang long with high-end powder metal steels(a method of making steel using ultra-pure micrograins of steel that are heated and pressed together). How would n680 compare to m690? One important concept I want to hammer home is that there isnt one property that is most important. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and cant go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. CROMOVA While not a powder steel, 154CM is widely used in nicer knives. But I think it would have much higher toughness than any of the steels on the chart. Steel softens as tempering temperature increases, but certain steels see an increase in hardness in a certain higher temperature range such as shown below for high speed steels that are designed for this type of tempering: This high temperature tempering can be done for several reasons, such as better resistance to overheating during grinding, or because a coating will be applied to the knife that requires a high temperature. I actually dont recommend that enthusiasts spend all that much time analyzing the exact composition of different steels and trying to guess their properties. This is one of the better steels on the market. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. Edge retention often refers to the ability of a knifes edge to maintain its sharpness during use. what does a cvn of 40 v.s 20 mean? Continue with Recommended Cookies. Some steel companies charge more than others. They were two different tests (different batch of steel, different person heat treating, etc). AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. Thank you. That is professionaly popular such as the Japanese designation SKD11, Uddeholm Sverker 21, German designation 1.2379, Hitachi SLD and others. Steels do come at various price points, however, depending on the cost of producing them and the cost for the knife company to work with them. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! A2 Knife Steel Air-hardened tool steel. MagnaCut has the lowest chromium of any of the below steels but all of its chromium is in solution (no chromium carbide) and the fact that it has no chromium carbide also gives it the maximum level of corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. Its used for combat knives, bushcrafting knives, and other applications where having a supertough blade trumps the need for edge retention and corrosion resistance. The 14C28N, on the other hand, is tougher. Most of these steels rely on particle metallurgy and are therefore more expensive. Hi Larrin Your estimate of 420HCs corrosion resistance is different here than in your October, 2019 post on corrosion resistance testing: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/ The knife Natrix with substantial copper handle is a deceptively hefty EDC. However, the 14c28n provides perfect edge retention with a maximum hardness of 62Hrc and the mixture of Chromium and Carbon. All of the experiments shown below are possible thanks to supporters. Rust Test includes:D2 from Bestech and WE1095 from shop8Cr13Mov from Spyderco420HC from BuckWalmart knifeY Start (Marked D2)Follow me at:Twitter: https://twi. In real life, would you expect any presumed increase in deviation from the specified formula, as well as the effects of said deviation, to negatively impact the performance of 8Cr13MoV to any truly noticeable degree? But which? Toughness is the resistance to chipping or breaking. For example, below is a video comparing a 1095 ESEE knife at 55-57 Rc and a MagnaCut knife at 62.5 Rc, both with the same edge angle. This is a midprice steel with matching performance. Read more. The majority of knives target 63 Rc or below so this limitation of stainless steels does not always come into play but can be an important factor for certain knives targeting high performance and thin edges. Even metallurgists can have a difficult time estimating properties just based on the elements. Rowens heat treat on ESEE knives that use 1095 is exceptional; KA-BARs is less so. Softer steel usually forms larger burrs and they are more difficult to deburr. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. just recently the idea occured tome to sharpen a planer blade like a knife and check out how it performs. This doesnt necessarily mean they have terrible toughness, but they have limitations. Ah ok that wasnt mentioned. Why wouldnt it be possible to make a damascus steel out of (say) AEB-L and s90V, or wouldnt that gain the best of both? Not to sound like a ship, but these two knife inspiration makes this an eye-catching knife. But in use, Ive found nothing that withstands the abuse that 3V can take. Therefore I will be showing the ratings of the steels graphically in terms of toughness-edge retention balance, where steels that are high and to the right have the best combination, and you choose the steel based on the level of toughness or edge retention necessary for the knife. Privacy Policy. Even it enhances corrosion resistance and wear resistance. Corrosion is not only cosmetic. Since the heat treatment is done before you get your knife, and its impossible to tell how good the heat treatment is with your eye, you often must rely on the manufacturers reputation for a good heat treat. 1. 14C28N steel is as a result of a more corrosion resistant version of the 13C26 steel. Later, it gets heated and compressed into one ingot. We did the research to help you find the best hunting knife for your needs and budget. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. On the other hand, in d2 air-hardness steel, you cant differentially temper the blade-like other high carbon steel because the steel can also be challenging to sharpen. D2 at 58 hard will cut much more rope than AEB-L at 62. After the steel is quenched it is reheated to a lower temperature to increase toughness and decrease hardness. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. When we plot toughness vs edge retention on a log scale instead we get a straight line that is a better visualization of toughness differences. Combination of knife steel properties. Should you continue to scroll further, you may find yourself lost in a seemingly endless list of knife steel wealth and knowledge. This is a powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. 14C28N knives will handle challenging and demanding applications without chipping, cracking, or breaking. Vanax and LC200N are unique in reaching 59-60 Rc while being very stain resistant. Divers, sailors, and anglers need knives that will resist corrosion above all else. The edge retention and ease of sharpening have been what we expect with D2. Stainless steels are another subset of high alloy tool steels that have enough chromium in them to have stainless levels of corrosion resistance. There is no single category that means that a steel is more premium or better than another. This is to keep the focus on the elements that are making the biggest difference. and yet millons of knives are being made out of 1.4116 (aisi 420mov?) Developed by New Jersey Steel Baron, Nitro V is a non-powder steel marketed as an enhanced version of AEB-L. Nitro V, as its name indicates, adds nitrogen to AEB-Ls formula to make the steel even more corrosion-resistant. There are still a few things I dont know but we have enough information to make educated guesses where data isnt available. One is certainly anti-China bias, as you pointed out. In other words, Rex 121 would be the most difficult to sharpen and 5160 and 8670 would be the easiest. s30v Obviously Ill let you check the manuscript prior to publication. Im not hating on 80crv2 , Ive used it. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon. This steel, as the name implies has a professional styling to it. Several factors arent related to the steel you choose but seriously affect the nature of your knifes performance. Wusthof Classic Ikon 8-Inch Cooks Knife Review, Victorinox Fibrox Straight Edge Chefs Knife Review, What is Cts bd1 steel? This steel is quite corrosion resistant and sharpens easily. You can read an article I wrote on budget steels here. Both of those things are no longer an issue as I now have way too many articles and a book. Generally seen as a slight upgrade to the 440C/VG-10/ATS-34 caliber of steel, its a decent all-around steel with good corrosion resistance, decent toughness, and only modest hardness. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. whats even more disturbing is that cvn and fracture toughness sometimes (often?) It had better than expected corrosion resistance due to the lack of chromium carbides, a behavior also seen in MagnaCut. Must-Have Bowie Knives for Your Collection, What is Micarta and What Makes It a Great Knife Handle, Top 8 Reasons Why Knives Make the Best Gifts, Pocket Clips: Carry Safely and Comfortably, Make a Knife Your Own with Accessories & Customization. grivory 14C28N VS Steel. If youre looking for all all-around best knife steel, youd be hard-pressed to find one better than Bohler Uddeholm M390. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/ n690 I think you wrote an article a bit ago on CTS-XHP and concluded that like D2 and ZDP-189 it wasnt really stainless (although stainless is a somewhat arbitrary line). A lot of custom makers also like S110V, including the great RJ Martin. These steels are perfect for thin edges and high hardness. 14C28N is stainless steel, and its knives offer excellent rust resistance and toughness than D2 steel. The steel is similar to Sandviks 13C26. Only a few years ago Elmax was pricey, but competition has driven it down to reasonable levels, making it a decent value. This is one of the fundamental tradeoffs in steel. There has been some internet controversy over the grinding and heat treat of this steel. Hi Larrin Youve occasionally mentioned cryo treatment in your posts, including here with LC200N. 14C28N vs. D2. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. You cannot leave your 14C28N knives in water overnight and expect them not to rust. Steels with only vanadium carbides have the best balance of properties because the hardness of carbide matters for edge retention but doesnt for toughness. It has enough water-fighting properties that it can be used in marine environments. The 10V specimens tempered at 1000F were 4-5 ft-lbs while the specimens tempered at 4-500F were 7-8 ft-lbs. Due to its higher Chromium content, S30v is a lot less likely to corrode/rust than the D2 Steel. 14C28N knives offer excellent corrosion resistance and toughness. In nitrogen steels, nitrogen is used as the iron-hardener instead of carbon, thus limiting the possibility of rusting. These steels have sufficient toughness to handle thinner edge geometry. I do not have rust issues with it (as long as I have a good finish) some heavy stonewashed finishes rust easier. For these reasons D2 steel is a good for smaller folding knives, but is not ideal for large fixed blades such as dedicated choppers and large survival knives. Its soft, with very low carbon content. Both steels are popular among knife manufacturers and both have their strengths and weaknesses. The claim is that they align the blades edge, pushing any slightly rolled over bits back into place and thus preserving the cutting ability of the knife for longer. The steel is susceptible to overheating during hardening do not overheat. This does not predict which knife will cut longer or be more resistant to chipping. AEB-L and 14C28N also have moderate edge retention though of course much lower than vanadium-alloyed powder metallurgy steels like S30V or M390. Sandvik later came out with 14C28N which is a slightly improved version of 13C26. Quite an eyeopener! Theyll be fully attributed to you with website and Patreon links, obviously. Most steels use carbon to increase hardness, but 14C28N uses nitrogen, boosting hardness without the normal penalty of increased corrosion. But to learn more about these and other attributes, read our related outdoor knife buyers guide. Editors note: This article was first published in May 2015 and was most recently updated on May 25, 2020. There is one exception: Bucks 420HC (Buck and onlyBuck) is produced using a proprietary heat treatment. CPM-3V is a powder metallurgy contender in this category. In general, the more carbide the steel has and the larger the carbides the lower is the toughness. Any idea where it would be on the hardness and toughness scales? It is certainly possible for a knifemaker or heat treating company to do a heat treatment that will have suboptimal properties. On the spreadsheet, youve grouped AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV. This is the basis on which I do the ratings rather than a linear scale. Some steels are cooked up specifically with this in mind and are very difficult to make rust. However, many kinds of wood are REALLY tough and very hard on blades. I wrote an article about knife steel ratings available online in 2018, where I concluded that none of them were very good. . Most vintage tool blades seem to have been made of 1084/1095 or similar, presumably at some <60 Rc hardness that gave the required toughness, and the rules of thumb for sharpening angles are based on those assumptions. Theyre excellent for choppers, hard-use folders, and outdoor knives that see impacts and heavy use when used at medium hardness. Very acute edges are more brittle but remain sharp for longer and cut very well. Most low alloy tool steels and carbon steels also have fine carbide structures without powder metallurgy processing. For example, the Si space is blank for several of the carbon steels because they have a relatively wide acceptable range, not because the element isnt added. Like S90V, its a high-hardness steel, but its more balanced than S90V. Uddeholm lists it as somewhat worse in toughness than A2 but somewhat better in wear resistance. Read about my tests in this article. Fix-It Sticks Compact Ratcheting Multi-Tool Review, Toughness, Wear Resistance, Corrosion Resistance. Damascus or pattern welded steel is a result of combining two steels together. Great for tensile strength and Edge retention. However, it falls behind the Bohler steel in corrosion resistance. Below, weve listed some of the attributes you might want out of your steel and given some examples in both the more expensive powder metallurgy steels and more affordable conventionally produced steels. 14C28N steel holds good hardness. Where the black-finished 1.4116 version has a simple, full flat grind, the D2 version has a compound flat grind that ends halfway up the blade's height. looking at getting a nice larger flipper for a little under 100 AUD. Wear resistance comes from hardness and carbides, hard particles formed between carbon and another element like Vanadium or Tungsten. Rex 45 This was described in this article on Vanax heat treating. These steels offer a great balance of characteristics that work well, from big choppers to thin slicers. REX 121 is a powder steel produced by Crucible. There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. The knives can be used in humid and wet environments without rusting. But among the steels youll find at Cabelas and the like, this is a pretty good choice. Its a costly and challenging process, but it makes extremely fine-grained steels, some of the best for knives, and makes some processes that were previously impossible a reality. Where did it come from? By signing up for email newsletters, you agree to GearJunkie's, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window). Tougher than D2, but less wear-resistant. For example, increasing edge retention from Z-Tuff to 3V (100 mm in the CATRA test) led to a drop in over 10 ft-lbs, a similar drop is seen by going from 3V to CPM-CruWear. It would be really useful to have the raw data that backs the charts that you produce. D2 steel also offers similar toughness levels as the 14c28n steel, so both aren't really prone to chipping with proper use. One argument I see consistently leveled against 8Cr13MoV compared to AUS-8 is that of the consistency of the composition. I hope you will find value in the articles on this website. It also tops out around 60-61 Rc like LC200N and needs relatively careful heat treating to even be that hard. A good quality knife must have sharpness, great edge retention, and a sturdy handle. (I think the 420HC estimate in that post was based on simulation or computer modeling, since you didnt spray testing any of the 400 series.) I did a large study of different knives with identical sharpening and edge geometry. Steels that are improperly heat treated have excess retained austenite which makes them extremely difficult to deburr. Required fields are marked *. That is an air-hardening- high carbon, high chromium tool steel. So for most steels they are given a rating at around 59-62 Rc, apart from a few steels that are never used at that hardness. Below shows a comparison of carbide structure between D2 and CPM-D2, and then toughness measurements between the conventional and PM versions of CruWear, D2, and 154CM. I dipped each in lemon juice and left in open air and tested after 30, 100, and 300 minutes, dipping in lemon juice again each time. VG-10 steel also has the same level of toughness as 14C28N and the same level of corrosion resistance. Any thoughts how Sleipner might fare in the ratings? The D2 knife blade offers high edge retention and wear resistance. The line is only in the neighborhood of 5 of the datapoints. S45VN Like 154CM, there is a newer version, S35VN, which shares many of the same attributes as S30V but is easier to craft into a knife thanks to niobium. For this perfect size that for most tasks and the slim tip allows the knife to excel at piercing and detail work. Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. But the true calling card of INFI is its insane toughness. This means consumers should be able to maintain these quality knives at home. Carpenter produces this powder steel. If you want to learn more than keep reading past the ratings. Steels high in toughness are excellent for knives likely to see hard impacts, like large chopping knives. The best knife for you should meet your needs and fit your budget. So, it is quite harder than most other steel variants and retains its edge sharp for a long period. What would you rate the toughness of CPM-D2. One such person is Dr. Larrin Thomas, a professional metallurgist raised by a knife maker and a giant knife nerd. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/03/cryogenic-part1/ Copper frame are very sturdy and machine well and take the best patina over time. And we list budget-friendly knives that have a professional style and grace to them. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. Lots of information is still specific to this article, however. But if when youre searching for tough steel for your outdoor experience camping, or hunting, it would be perfect steel but not the best choice therere other steels with better than toughness that would suit your usage. Type 8Cr, the more common formulation, is worse than AUS-8: a little more prone to corrosion and not quite as hard. Rather than upgrade from D2 to M4 or S30V just drop the angle from 40 degrees to 30 degrees. Most production knives are more than thick enough at the edge to accommodate a regrind to significantly improve performance, and its a lot cheaper than buying a new knife a lot of the time. I also have meat cleaver 1,4116 ,58RC that I order and was looking up if its a good steel or did waist money and need to return it. One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. Mostly it has been presented piecemeal with all of the studies that we have done on optimizing heat treatments of different steels like CPM-CruWear, AEB-L, 52100, etc.