Thursday, Feb 23 2023In 2014 Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel wrote in The Atlantic that he planned to refuse medical treatment after age 75. It is a case where data dont exist, or more commonly, where the existing data dont make sense, dont add up to a coherent explanation, cannot be used to make a prediction or statement about some thing or event. FIRESTEINA Newfoundland. FIRESTEINA great discussion with your listeners. It was very interesting. ANDREASAll right. And that got me to a little thinking and then I do meditate. What will happen when you do? "Please explain the difference between your critique of facts and the post-modern critique of science.". Ignorance beyond the Lab. You can't help it. Most of us have a false impression of science as a surefire, deliberate, step-by-step method for finding things out and getting things done. MR. STUART FIRESTEINYeah, so that's not quite as clear an example in the sense that it's not wrong but it's biased what we look at. That's not what we think in the lab. Its just turned out to be a far more difficult problem than we thought it was, but weve learned a vast amount about the problem, Firestein said. To support Open Cultures educational mission, please consider making a donation. The great obstacle to discovering the shape of the earth, the continents and the ocean was not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge. Daniel J. Boorstin, The Discoverers. Web. Stuart Firestein is the Professor and Chair of the Department of Biological Sciences at Columbia University, where his highly popular course on ignorance invites working scientists to come talk to students each week about what they don't know. FIRESTEINWell, it was called "Ignorance: A Science Course" and I purposely made it available to all. notifications whenever new talks are published. In fact, its somehow exhilarating. Tell us about that proverb and why it resonates so with you. It's commonly believed the quest for knowledge is behind scientific research, but neuroscientist Stuart Firestein says we get more from ignorance. Thank you so much for having me. FIRESTEINat the National Academy of Scientists right now at this conference. And so it occurred to me that perhaps I should mention some of what we dont know, what we still need to find out, what are still mysteries, what still needs to be done so that these students can get out there and find out, solve the mysteries and do these undone things. And we're very good at recording electrical signals. This is a fundamental unit of the universe. Answers create questions, he says. The Columbia University professor of biological sciencespeppers his talk with beautiful quotations celebrating this very specific type of ignorance. And it's just brilliant and, I mean, he shows you so many examples of acting unconsciously when you thought you'd been acting consciously. What does real scientific work look like? Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. And it is ignorance-not knowledge-that is the true engine of science. I have to tell you I don't think I know anybody who actually works that way except maybe FIRESTEINin science class, yes. I must see the following elements: 1) [] The importance of questions is so significant that the emerging 4.0 model of the framework emphasizes their significance throughout the entire process and not just during the Investigation phase. His thesis is that the field of science has many black rooms where scientists freely move from one to another once the lights are turned on. How are you ever gonna get through all these facts? You had to create a theory and then you had to step back and find steps to justify that theory. Young children are likely to experience the subject as something jolly, hands-on, and adventurous. that was written by Erwin Schrodinger who was a brilliant quantum physicist. I have very specific questions. And you could tell something about a person's personality by the bumps on their head. FIRESTEINThat's a good question. Legions of smart scientists labor to piece together the evidence supporting their discoveries, hypotheses, inventions and progress itself. Photo: James Duncan Davidson. REHMBecause ignorance is the beginning of knowledge? We never spam. Stuart Firestein begins with an ancient proverb, "It's very difficult to find a black cat in a dark room, especially when there is no cat.". Good morning to you and to Stuart. Neuroscientist Stuart Firestein, the chair of Columbia University's Biological Sciences department, rejects any metaphor that likens the goal of science to completing a puzzle, peeling an onion, or peeking beneath the surface to view an iceberg in its entirety. We have spent so much time trying to understand, not only what it is but we have seemed to stumble on curing it. And this equation was about the electron but it predicted the existence of another particle called the positron of equal mass and opposite charge. The data flowed freely, our technology's good at recording electrical activity, industries grow up around it, conferences grow up around it. How do we determine things at low concentrations? That positron that nobody in the world could've ever imagined would be of any use to us, but now it's an incredibly important part of a medical diagnostic technique. FIRESTEINAnd a little cat who I think, I must say, displays kinds of consciousness. That is, these students are all going on to careers in medicine or biological research. And I'm gonna say I don't know because I don't. in Education, Philosophy, Science, TED Talks | November 26th, 2013 1 Comment. We don't know whether consciousness is a critical part of what our brains do or a kind of an epiphenomena, something that's come as a result of other things that we do. Most of us have a false impression of science as a surefire, deliberate, step-by-step method for finding things out and getting things done. African American Studies And The Politics Of Ron DeSantis, Whats Next In The Fight Over Abortion Access In The US. TED Conferences, LLC. by Ayun Halliday | Permalink | Comments (1) |. Fascinating. FIRESTEINBut now 60 years later, you go to the hospital, you might have something called a PET scan. Finally, I thought, a subject I can excel in. Such comparisons suggest a future in which all of our questions will be answered. FIRESTEINSo that's a very specific question. In this witty talk, Firestein gets to the heart of science as it is really practiced and suggests that we should value what we don't know or "high-quality ignorance" just as much as . I mean it's quite a lively field actually and yet, for years people figured well, we have a map. FIRESTEINWell, of course, you know, part of the problem might be that cancer is, as they say, the reward for getting older because it wasn't really a very prevalent disease until people began regularly living past the age of 70 or so. But I don't mean stupidity. And as it now turns out, seems to be a huge mistake in some of our ideas about learning and memory and how it works. I think most people think, well, first, you're ignorant, then you get knowledge. Science is always wrong. By Stuart Firestein. Firestein goes on to compare how science is approached (and feels like) in the classroom and lecture hall versus the lab. Then he said facts are constantly wrong. Look for talks on Technology, Entertainment and Design -- plus science, business, global issues, the arts and much more.Find closed captions and translated subtitles in many languages at http://www.ted.com/translateFollow TED news on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/tednewsLike TED on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TEDSubscribe to our channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TEDtalksDirector Knowledge is a big subject, says Stuart Firestein, but ignorance is a bigger one. FIRESTEINOh, I wish it was my saying, actually. Hi there, Dana. It means a lot because of course there is this issue of the accessibility of science to the public FIRESTEINwhen we're talking some wacko language that nobody can understand anymore. Now, I'm not a historian of science. TED's editors chose to feature it for you. stuart firestein the pursuit of ignorance. In a 1-2 page essay, discuss how Firestein suggests you should approach this data. Now, if you're beginning with ignorance and how it drives science, how does that help me to move on? It certainly has proven itself again and again. He said, you know what I really wonder is how do I remember -- how do I remember small things? In fact, I would say it follows knowledge rather than precedes it. FIRESTEINSo certainly, we get the data and we get facts and that's part of the process, but I think it's not the most engaging part of the process. First to Grand Rapids, Mich. Good morning, Brian. 9. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. FIRESTEINI think it absolutely does. This couldnt be more wrong. FIRESTEINThank you so much for having me. "Knowledge is a big subject, says Stuart Firestein, but ignorance is a bigger one. I think that the possibility that you have done that is not absolutely out of the question, it's just that, again, it's so easy to be fooled by what are brain tells us that I think you would be more satisfied if you sought out a somewhat more -- I think that's what you're asking for is a more empirical reinforcement of this idea. In the ideal world, both of these approaches have value as we need both wide open and a general search for understanding and a way to apply it to make the world better. Drives Science Stuart Firestein Pdf that you are looking for. Ignorance: How It Drives Science. Finally, the ongoing focus on reflection allows the participants to ask more questions (how does this connect with prior knowledge? Stuart Firestein: The pursuit of ignorance TED 22.5M subscribers Subscribe 1.3M views 9 years ago What does real scientific work look like? Let me tell you my somewhat different perspective. Ukraine, China And Challenges To American Diplomacy, Why One Doctor Says We Should Focus On Living Well, Not Long, A.P. Limits, Uncertainty, Impossibility, and Other Minor Problems -- Chapter 4. Firestein openly confesses that he and the rest of his field don't really know that. Here's an email from Robert who says, "How often in human history has having the answer been a barrier to advancing our understanding of everything?". Immunology has really blossomed because of cancer research initially I think, or swept up in that funding in any case. Were hoping to rely on our loyal readers rather than erratic ads. We're not really sure what it means to have consciousness ourselves. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. We have many callers waiting. FIRESTEINAnd I must say a lot of modern neuroscience comes to exactly that recognition, that there is no way introspectively to understand. I want to know how it is we can take something like a rose, which smells like such a single item, a unified smell, but I know is made up of about 10 or 12 different chemicals and they all look different and they all act differently. Firestein said most people believe ignorance precedes knowledge, but, in science, ignorance follows knowledge. In his new book, Ignorance: How It Drives Science, Firestein argues that pursuing research based on what we dont know is more valuable than building on what we do know. Ignorance According to Shawn Otto, science can never be this: a. Subscribe to the TED Talks Daily newsletter. The purpose of gaining knowledge is, in fact, "to make better ignorance: to come up with, if you will, higher quality ignorance," he describes. In sum, they talk about the current state of their ignorance. THE PURSUIT OF IGNORANCE. Jeremy Firestein argues in his new book, "Ignorance: How It Drives Science," that conducting research based on what we don't know is more beneficial than expanding on what we do know. I thought the same thing when I first started teaching the course, which was a very -- I just offered it kind of on my own. FIRESTEINYes. Call us on 800-433-8850. All rights reserved. In his neuroscience lab, they investigate how the brain works, using the nose as a "model system" to understand the smaller piece of a difficult complex brain. drpodcast@wamu.org, 4401 Connecticut Avenue NW|Washington, D.C. 20008|(202) 885-1200. Its black cats in dark rooms. CHRISTOPHERFoundational knowledge is relatively low risk, but exploratory research has relatively high risks for potential gain. We just have to recognize that the proof is the best we have at the moment and it's pretty good, but it will change and we should let it change. At the same time I spent a lot of time writing and organizing lectures about the brain for an undergraduate course that I was teaching. If I understand the post-modern critique of science, which is that it's just another set of opinions, rather than some claim on truth, some strong claim on truth, which I don't entirely disagree with. TEDTalks : Stuart Firestein - The pursuit of ignorance . FIRESTEINBut to their credit most scientists realize that's exactly what they would be perfect for. to those who judge the video by its title, this is less provocative: The pursuit of new questions that lead to knowledge. And I say to them, as do many of my colleagues, well, look, let's get the data and then we'll come up with a hypothesis later on. Knowledge enables scientists to propose and pursue interesting questions about data that sometimes dont exist or fully make sense yet. The goal of CBL is for learners to start with big ideas and use questioning to learn, while finding solutions (not the solution, but one of a multitude of solutions), raise more questions, implement solutions and create even more questions. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. FIRESTEINBut the quote is -- and it's an old adage, it's anonymous and says, it's very difficult to find a black cat in a dark room especially when there's no cat, which seems to me to be the perfect description of how we do science. But he said the efforts havent been wasted. Science, to Firestein, is about asking questions and acknowledging the gap of knowledge in the scientific community. So they're imminently prepared to give this talk -- to talk to the students about it. Thursday, Mar 02 2023Foreign policy expert David Rothkopf on the war in Ukraine, relations with China and the challenges ahead for the Biden administration. And you're listening to "The Diane Rehm Show." Ignorance is biggerand it is more interesting. These are the words of neuroscientist Stuart Firestein, the chair of Columbia Universitys biology department. Pingback: MAGIC VIDEO HUB | A streetlamp powered by algae? Why they want to know this and not that, this more than that. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. I mean more times than I can tell you some field has been thought to be finished or closed because we knew everything, you know. If we want individuals who can embrace quality ignorance and ask good questions we need a learning framework that supports this. Political analyst Basil Smikle explains why education finds itself yet again at the center of national politics. And I think we should. REHMBut, you know, the last science course I had in high school, mind you, had a very precise formulation. 6 people found this helpful Overall Performance Story MD 06-19-19 Good read REHMStuart Finestein (sic) . And nematode worms, believe it or not, have been an important source of neuroscience research, as well as mice and rats and so forth and all the way up to monkeys depending on the particular question you're asking. In this witty talk, Firestein gets to the heart of science as it is really practiced and suggests that we should value what we don't know -- or "high-quality ignorance" -- just as much as what we know. And as I look at my little dog I am convinced that there is consciousness there. This button displays the currently selected search type. The Investigation phase uses questions to learn about the challenge, guide our learning and lead to possible solution concepts. I often introduce my course with this phrase that Emo Phillips says, which is that I always thought my brain was the most wonderful organ in my body. The beginning about science vs. farting doesn't make sense to me. FIRESTEINYes. So I think that's what you have to do, you know. I think the idea of a fishing expedition or what's often called curiosity-driven research -- and somehow or another those things are pejorative, it's like they're not good. FIRESTEINBut, you know, the name the big bang that we call how the universe began was originally used as a joke. So it's not clear why and it's a relatively new disease and we don't know about it and that's kind of the problem. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. REHMDirk sends this in, "Could you please address the concept of proof, which is often misused by the public and the press when discussing science and how this term is, for the most part, not appropriate for science? We bump into things. Good morning, professor. FIRESTEINIt's hard to say on the wrong track because we've learned a lot on that track. REHMYou know, when I saw the title of this book and realized that you teach a course in this, I found myself thinking, so who's coming to a course titled "Ignorance?". Describe the logical positivist philosophy of science. So this is a big question that we have no idea about in neuroscience. But I don't think Einstein's physics came out of Newton's physics. FIRESTEINThat's right. And these solid facts form the edifice of science, an unbroken record of advances and insights embodied in our modern views and unprecedented standard of living. You can buy these phrenology busts in stores that show you where love is and where compassion is and where violence is and all that. Simply put, the classroom is focused on acquiring and organizing facts while the lab is an exhilarating search for understanding. I guess maybe I've overdone this a little bit. I'm a working scientist. There may be a great deal of things the world of science knows, but there is more that they do not know. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. If Firestein is correct that science needs to be about asking good, ( and I think he is) and that the current schooling system inhibits this (and I think it does)then do we have a learning framework for him. It is the most important resource we scientists have, and using it correctly is the most important thing a scientist does. He compares science to searching for a black cat in a dark room, even though the cat may or may not be in there. In a letter to her brother in 1894, upon having just received her second graduate degree, Marie Curie wrote: One never notices what has been done; one can only see what remains to be done . And I wonder if the wrong questions are being asked. If all you want in life are answers, then science is not for you. Thoroughly conscious ignorance is a prelude to every real advance in science.-James Clerk Maxwell. It will completely squander the time. I dont mean a callow indifference to facts or data or any of that, Firestein said. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. And so, you know, and then quantum mechanics picked up where Einstein's theory couldn't go, you know, for . Firestein worked in theater for almost 20 years in San Francisco and Los Angeles and rep companies on the East Coast. . or treatment. REHMI thought you'd say that, Stuart Firestein. We find the free courses and audio books you need, the language lessons & educational videos you want, and plenty of enlightenment in between. Why you should listen You'd think that a scientist who studies how the human brain receives and perceives information would be inherently interested in what we know. The problem is that he defines ignorance in a "noble" way, that has nothing to do with the (willful) ignorance we see in audio and other areas. Ignorance is the first requisite of the historian ignorance, which simplifies and clarifies, which selects and omits, with a placid perfection unattainable by the highest art. Lytton Strachey, biographer and critic, Eminent Victorians, 1918 (via the Yale Book of Quotations). REHMAnd David in Hedgesville, W.Va. sends this saying, "Good old Donald Rumsfeld REHMwas right about one thing, there's what you know, what you don't know and what you don't know you don't know." In the following excerpt from his book, IGNORANCE: How It Drives Science, Firestein argues that human ignorance and uncertainty are valuable states of mind perhaps even necessary for the true progress of science. What do I need to learn next?). MS. DIANE REHMHis new book is titled "Ignorance: How It Drives Science." REHMSo what is the purpose of your course? Access a free summary of The Pursuit of Ignorance, by Stuart Firestein and 25,000 other business, leadership and nonfiction books on getAbstract. In this witty talk, Firestein gets to the heart of science as it is really practiced and suggests that we should value what we don't know -- or "high-quality ignorance" -- just as much as what we know. Relevant Learning Objective: LO 1-2; Describe the scientific method and how it can be applied to education research topics That is, I should teach them ignorance. I use that term purposely to be a little provocative. We thank you! Please review the TED talk by Stuart Firestein (The pursuit of ignorance). in a dark room, warns an old proverb. Einstein's physics was quite a jump. PROFESSOR Stuart Firestein worries about his students: what will graduate schools think of men and women who got top marks in Ignorance? We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. They need to be able to be revised and we have to accept that's the world we live in and that's what science does. I call somebody up on the phone and say, hi. Browse the library of TED talks and speakers, 100+ collections of TED Talks, for curious minds, Go deeper into fascinating topics with original video series from TED, Watch, share and create lessons with TED-Ed, Talks from independently organized local events, Inspiration delivered straight to your inbox, Take part in our events: TED, TEDGlobal and more, Find and attend local, independently organized events, Learn from TED speakers who expand on their world-changing ideas, Recommend speakers, TED Prize recipients, Fellows and more, Rules and resources to help you plan a local TEDx event, Bring TED to the non-English speaking world, Join or support innovators from around the globe, TED Conferences, past, present, and future, Details about TED's world-changing initiatives, Updates from TED and highlights from our global community, 3,185,038 views | Stuart Firestein TED2013. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. He came and talked in my ignorance class one evening and said that a lot of his work is based on his ability to make a metaphor, even though he's a mathematician and string theory, I mean, you can't really imagine 11 dimensions so what do you do about it. REHMStuart Firestein, his new book is titled, "Ignorance: How it Drives Science." You talk about spikes in the voltage of the brain. Stuart Firestein teaches students and "citizen scientists" that ignorance is far more important to discovery than knowledge. One kind of ignorance is willful stupidity; worse than simple stupidity, it is a callow indifference to facts or logic. So it's not that our brain isn't smart enough to learn about the brain, it's just that having one gives you an impression of how it works that's often quite wrong and misguided. But part of the chemistry produces electrical responses. Stuart Firestein teaches students and citizen scientists that ignorance is far more important to discovery than knowledge. And, you know, we all like our ideas so we get invested in them in little ways and then we get invested in them in big ways, and pretty soon I think you wind up with a bias in the way you look at the data, Firestein said. With a puzzle you see the manufacturer has guaranteed there is a solution. REHMAll right. His little big with a big title, it's called "Ignorance: How it Drives Science." Here's a website comment from somebody named Mongoose, who says, "Physics and math are completely different animals from biology. DANAHello, Diane. The result, however, was that by the end of the semester I began to sense that the students must have had the impression that pretty much everything is known in neuroscience. Stuart Firestein: The Pursuit of Ignorance Firestein discusses science, how it's pursued, and how it's perceived, in addition to going into a detailed discussion about the scientific method and what it is. ANDREASGood morning, Diane. Ayun Hallidayrecently directed 16 homeschoolers in Yeast Nation, the worlds first bio-historical musical. 8. I mean, again, Im not a physicist, but to me there's a huge, quantum jump there, if you will. I'm Diane Rehm. Science keeps growing, and with that growth comes more people dont know. REHMBut, you know, take medical science, take a specific example, it came out just yesterday and that is that a very influential group is saying it no longer makes sense to test for prostate cancer year after year after year REHMbecause even if you do find a problem with the prostate, it's not going to be what kills you FIRESTEINThat's right at a certain age, yes. That's a very tricky one, I suppose. book summary ignorance how it drives science the need. As neuroscientist Stuart Firestein jokes: It looks a lot less like the scientific method and a lot more like \"farting around in the dark.\" In this witty talk, Firestein gets to the heart of science as it is really practiced and suggests that we should value what we don't know -- or \"high-quality ignorance\" -- just as much as what we know.TEDTalks is a daily video podcast of the best talks and performances from the TED Conference, where the world's leading thinkers and doers give the talk of their lives in 18 minutes (or less). Stuart J. Firestein is the chair of the Department of Biological Sciences at Columbia University, where his laboratory is researching the vertebrate olfactory receptor neuron. [3] Firestein has been elected as a fellow by the American Association for the Advancement of Science for his meritorious . And it is ignorance--not knowledge--that is the true engine of science. And how does our brain combine that blend into a unified perception? My question is how should we direct our resources and are there some disciplines that are better for foundational knowledge or ground-up research and are there others that are better for exploratory or discovery-based research? About the speaker Stuart Firestein Neuroscientist I wanna go back to what you said about facts earlier. FIRESTEINAnd the story goes that somebody standing next to him said, well, this is all nice, but what good could this possibly be to anybody, being able to fly? Firestein said scientists need to ask themselves key questions such as, What will happen if you dont know this, if you never get to know it? And so you want to talk science and engage the public in science because it's an important part of our culture and it's an important part of our society. Get a daily email featuring the latest talk, plus a quick mix of trending content. I don't know. I don't mean a callow indifference to facts or data or any of that. They don't mean that one is wrong, the other is right. I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance. Socrates, quoted in Diogenes Laertius, Lives of the Philosphers (via the Yale Book of Quotations).